Ideal, minimum levels to be maintained LMFAO!
What that ridiculous once weekly whopping dosed 200 mg T protocol with an AI throw in to boot LOL!
Go push that nonsense on one of those kiddie forums.
I could name off numerous top experts in the field that would s**t all over this!
If you are hitting a very high trough FT 30+ng/dL 7 f**king days post-injection you are clearly overmedicated plain and simple.
If you are going to aim for a higher-end trough the easy fix here would be injecting daily or EOD not twice-weekly let alone once weekly.
He is out to lunch like the rest of those that reside in that more T is better mentality camp.
As I have stated numerous times on the forum over the years.
Too many caught up on that more T is better mentality bulls**t being pushed by most of those T-mills, so called gurus and half wits stinking up all this so called HRT/mens health forums.
Always need to be mindful of your injection frequency/where trough FT sits.
FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.
FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.
FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.
FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high!
The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.
Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.
Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol.
Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.
Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL or 10-12 ng/dL tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis and this is a short-lived daily peak to boot.
Even if you take those natty outliers in the 95th percentile hitting a high FT 25 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak to boot.
You have guys on T hitting a trough FT 25-30+ ng/dL injecting daily with FT elevated 24/7, EOD as in every 2 days (48 hrs post-injection),twice-weekly as in every 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection), once weekly as in 7 days post-injection.
This is a common theme when it comes to the FT s**t show!
Too many are overmedicated on T off the hop let alone on therapy.
Many lack the understanding of how exogenous T works.
Start low and go slow we say, titrate slowly if need be.
The majority of low-T symptoms will be relieved/improved hitting a healthy trough FT as in 15-25 ng/dL or the upper 1/3rd.
T is a threshold hormone!
Main point here being start low and go slow titrate the dose if need be until the threshold is crossed (bloodwork + symptoms).
Symptoms improved while at the same time minimizing/avoiding sides, keeping blood markers healthy and maintaining long-term health is key here!
Crossing the threshold turns the lights on but cranking the dimmer switch past that doesn't make them shine brighter. It's a ceiling effect, not a linear dose-response.
Especially when it comes to libido and erectile function.
Last thing you want to be doing here is hammering the s**t out of your CNS and dopamine!
Again the majority of symptoms will be improved once you achieve a healthy FT which for most would be aiming for a healthy/high-end trough 15-25 ng/dL.
Where do those natty outliers that fall in the 95th percentile sit?
This is a F**KING short-lived daily peak to boot!
LMFAO!
*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges
Age category (years) |
Median mFT (ng/dl) |
95% mFT reference range (ng/dl) |
18-29 (n=140)
30-39 (n=252) |
12.0
9.8 |
6.7-25.3
4.9-18.5 |
40-49 (n=207) |
8.1 |
4.3.14.2 |
50-59 (n=146) |
7.1 |
3.8-12.8 |
60-69 (n=126) |
6.4 |
3.4-11.7 |
70-79 (n=125) |
5.6 |
2.7-8.7 |
*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies
* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).
Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360
In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.
Sit and dwell on that!
Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!
You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!
Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!
So much misinformation littered on the net its...
Just to be clear up any confusion this is Fiers camps data for mFT reference ranges not the harmonized reference range being worked on by the CDC.
*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies
* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1). Subsequently, 95% reference ranges were determined using the non-parametric method
Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone...
My reply from a previous thread!
I can name off numerous top experts in the field that have been treating 1000s of men over decades with VAST clinical experience and YEARS of RESEARCH in the field.
Throw my doctor in there too who has 20+ years under his belt and would be considered one of the top uros in Canada specializing in testosterone therapy!
They would eat this up quick!
Abe hitting the nail on the head here!
Abraham Morgentaler
* what's important to understand though is that the concept of testosterone therapy in theory is designed to replicate youthful levels of testosterone to help people who are deficient in this hormone, the goal isn't to make them into supermen and the real question is why do people want to go above normal if at all, much of the concept of treating up lets say a 1000 let's say our normal upper limit, in the anti-aging community or age management community there are some people who believe the there's an optimal level of testosterone that may be 1200 or 1500 or even I've heard 1800 and the basis for that is WEAK!
You know the man who would be considered the father of testosterone and has made huge contributions in the field of testosterone therapy and men's health let alone has treated 1000s of men over decades!
Would be considered one of the top heavyweights when it comes to (research/clinical experience) in the field of hormone replacement therapy!
My advice? Switch to ED injections gradually moving to 200mg per week. This low-dose nonsense is just that—nonsense. Your FT should be 35 - 45 NOT 15 - 25..lol. The top Clinicians/Providers with vast REAL-WORLD clinical experience (Dr. Keith Nichols, Dave Lee, Ryan Root, Dr. Rand McClain, Dr. Todd Lee) ALL say more or less the same thing: Less is not more. More is more.
The issue is all the outliers and wannabe forum gurus hang out on these forums in an endless echo chamber of circle jerk validation spewing their confirmation bias. MOST men doing well on TRT are using 200mg per week...
