My Test enanthate dosage is 70 mg weekly split in to two shots that puts my Test levels around 800. I do take low dose Telmisartan for BP. But my HDL has dropped from 65 to 49.. I do quite a bit of running, walking and weight lifting. LDL is around 150. I am concerned about drop in HDL. Will this HDL drop, a long term risk for cardiovascular health?
How do you all put up with drop in HDL?
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Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Higher doses of testosterone can cause decreases in good cholesterol (high density lipoprotein- HDL). There are several ways that HDL can be increased. Lee Myers, the founder of PeakTestosterone.com, has written a very good summary on the subject.
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Abstract
In this cross-sectional study, the relationships of the physiological levels of...
Supplements that lower LDL cholesterol and triglycerides and increase HDL. - ExcelMale - #1 TRT & Testosterone Forum | Expert-Moderated Men's Health Community
This is a very good summary table of different supplements that have been successfully studied in decreasing LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. Some also can increase HDL (good) cholesterol.
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Why does testosterone therapy decrease HDL cholesterol in some men? - ExcelMale - #1 TRT & Testosterone Forum | Expert-Moderated Men's Health Community
This HDL lowering effect is seen at higher testosterone doses. Relationship of plasma HDL-Cholesterol to testosterone, estradiol, and sex-hormone-binding globulin levels in men and women James Semmens et al. Metabolism Volume 32, Issue 5, May 1983, Pages 428–432 Abstract The significance...
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Abstract
In this cross-sectional study, the relationships of the physiological levels of...
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
I find that my HDL is somewhat dependent on the amount of niacin I take. It also fluctuates a fair amount. 49 sounds like it is still a good number. From what I know other factors are far more important, specifically A1C.
Here are other things to consider for overall CVD health.
Here are other things to consider for overall CVD health.
so my total dosage between the nandrolone and testosterone that I take per week is around 4x the total dosage that u take per week, and my HDL is currently sitting around 67. So I’m surprised that just 70mg/ week dropped ur hdl so much. I’m not sure why mine hasn’t taken more of a hit, but I kind of always chalk it up to being very health conscious, eating a clean diet, and keeping healthy fats nice and high
But in regards to ur hdl decreasing, as far as ur overall cardiovascular risk goes, I wouldn’t be too concerned. Cardiovascular risk mostly has to do with metabolic health/ insulin resistance. Here’s some stuff I was texting to a friend just yesterday about it actually. Kind of sums it up a bit
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Thanks for the detailed post
Systemlord
Member
The carnivore diet may be able to increase LDL.
Ya I think it probably would. I personally try to do as close to full carnivore as I can. I only add in carbs due to the ability to gain muscle easier, and due to cost. With the amount of calories I need to consume every day to be in a calorie surplus, it would unfortunately be too costly for me to get all those calories from fatty meat, pastured eggs and raw grassfed dairy. Being able to get a decent amount of calories from organic white rice, fruit, and organic raw honey saves me quite a bit of money
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I'm skeptical the HDL has anything to do with testosterone at this dose - typically, it takes much higher doses (150-200+ mg) to begin to have an adverse effect. I'd be looking at diet and other factors first.
Unless you're taking an AI (never take an AI).
This is a good point. 70mg is such a low dose of test. Again, I’m taking 4 times this amount, and back in December my HDL came back at 67. So there could definitely be other factors here. Lowering estrogen levels can definitely lower HDL levels. Especially when taking an ai, or dht derivative
I consume a good amount of healthy fats everyday from grassfed ground beef, grassfed ghee, pastured egg yolks, and a little raw cheese. Maybe trying to consume more healthy fats from sources like this can help OP get his HDL up a bit
madman
Super Moderator
Look over where CRP, RBS, Hb A1C, TGs, ApoB, CHOL, LDL and HDL sit!
What kind of diet (macros) do you think one would be following?
madman
Super Moderator
Vince said:
You may want to find a good lipidologist. That's what I do, my primary told me. My cholesterol panel looks like a young child's. She said it's perfect.
What's the verdict Joe lo-carb?
Vince
Super Moderator
If I had more time I would convert it over to to our numbers. But I've been so busy lately with all the grandkids. The great grandkid and my mom's been sick lately. She's 93 now.
madman
Super Moderator
Sorry to hear about your mother.
No need to. convert.
Blood work was done 3 hrs post-meal!
Excellent CRP, low-end RBS (non-fasted), low-end normal Hb A1C, excellent triglycerides and ApoB, low cholesterol, excellent LDL, and HDL is low!
Would not even fret over the low HDL.
Atherogenic particle load is very low and overall cardiovascular/metabolic risk is extremely low.
Take a wild guess what type of diet?
Vince
Super Moderator
I know you like carbs because it helps with your workouts. So I'm guessing just an average American diet. Which most would consider unhealthy.
madman
Super Moderator
All blood markers are stellar including CBC, CMP, lipids, full thyroid panel, cortisol/adrenals, iron/ferritn, vit D, urinalysis, PSA.
A stellar BP too!
Hematocrit sits at 50% as I run a trough TT 900 ng/dL and more importantly high-end trough cFTV 21.7 ng/dL.
Remember how I stressed genetics/high insulin sensitivity is what truly matters when it comes to once tolerance for carbohydrates.
Even then not all carbs are created equal and throw in glycemic index/load in there too!
Everyone ranting and raving that all carbs are evil LMFAO!
Ask that clown still preaching carnivore on here you know that lil guy on so called HRT banging all the androgens yet does not even look like he lifts after all these years!
You know the guy that should not be dishing out advice on T therapy let alone AAS!
Joe its all about balance LMFAO!
The kid got buried on here!
Carnivore and keto are garbage if your goal is to pack on lean mass let alone take full advantage of the anabolic properties of T/AAS!
This is a given!
Especially for anyone who would be considered a hard gainer.
Starch/glycogen is where it's at here.
Keep in mind I have been following a high carb diet (500-600 grams/day) for decades!
Muscular, strong and lean to boot!
I eat 5 meals a day every 3 hrs and each meal has a starchy complex carb, protein and fibrous carbs as in a s**t load of vegetables.
I always eat my last meal before bed.
The only macro I manipulate is fats which are increased when I am in a bulking phase (4000 cal/day).
Gonna bust your bubble here!
Did a 4 month experiment.
High carb, high protein, low fat!
500+ grams complex carbs, 200 grams protein and 30 grams fat (EFAs).
Keep in mind moderate to high GI starchy carbs and low GI fibrous carbs
25.8 pounds of basmati rice and 120 lbs russet potatoes in a month!
Who knew!
Carbohydrates (starchy/fibrous)
3 lbs russet potatoes (skin on)
378 grams basmati rice dry weight before cooking
3.3 lbs vegetables
Wanted to cut out all cholesterol and keep fats to a minimum.
Protein
200 grams grass fed whey protein isolate
Fats (essential fatty acids)
1 tbsp wild salmon oil (EPA/DHA)
1 tbsp hemp seed oil (3/6/9)
Meal 1
126 grams basmati = 100 grams carbs
300 grams mixed peppers
40 grams whey isolate
1 tbsp wild salmon oil
Meall 2
126 grams basmati = 100 grams carbs
300 grams kale
40 grams whey isolate
Meal 3
1.5 lbs russet potatoes = 100 grams carbs
300 grams broccoli
40 grams whey isolate
Meal 4
126 grams basmati = 100 grams carbs
300 grams carrots/mushrooms
40 grams whey isolate
Meal 5 (1 hr before bed)
1.5 lbs russet potatoes = 100 grams carbs
300 grams brussel sprouts
40 grams whey isolate
1 tbsp hemp oil
As I stated previously excellent CRP, low-end RBS (non-fasted), low-end normal Hb A1C, excellent triglycerides and ApoB, low cholesterol, excellent LDL, and HDL is low!
Would not even fret over the low HDL.
Atherogenic particle load is very low and overall cardiovascular/metabolic risk is extremely low.
Carb burning machine I would say with stellar blood markers to boot!
Vince
Super Moderator
My wife who's 68 can eat anything. Her blood panels are excellent. No need to take any meds. She did have colon cancer and part of her colon was removed. Later she got stomach cancer but was easily cured.
49 for HDL is most likely irrelevant IMO. My HDL was 70+ before TRT but my TT was 250 and free T 6.
On 100mg per week, my HDL is now 59.
The much more concerning number is your LDL of 150 which is high, which means your ApoB is also high.
I could not control my LDL nor my ApoB so I take 5mg of Lipitor daily and Repatha injectable every 2 weeks. My HDL is unaffected but my LDL is 40 and my ApoB is the same. I had a calcium scan done and had plaque in my early 40s most likely due to a combination of smoking and steroid abuse in my late 20s.
I eat like a physique competitor, walk 20k+ steps, train with weights multiple times per week and am lean. Diet and exercise can rarely combat this genetic issue of high LDL.
Definitely consult with a doctor about bringing down your LDL and subsequently your ApoB and make sure you blood pressure is sub 120.
Vince
Super Moderator
I don't know your family history I don't remember your age. Old enough you should consider getting a heart CT scan to check for your plaque amount. Hopefully it's zero.
A buddy of mine who is a APO-e 4/4 has zero plaque even though he's at the worst APO-e. Dementia runs high in his family because of their their apo-e.
RazorCarrie
New Member
While the HDL drop is definitely frustrating, that LDL of 150 is probably the bigger factor to keep an eye on. Like Vince said, seeing a specialist might be the best way to get a clear picture of your actual cardiovascular risk
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