0.30 ml enanthate E3D put me at 742 trough free T PMOL, Total T 30nmol and shbg 8 (single digit shbg always)
I felt really good on this dose but then i lowered to 0.20 E3D, and i started getting a bit of brain fog, less drive and motivation. My urologicst doesen’t keep people over the reference range, and to me it sounds crazy aswell that i would need to be that high in order for symptoms to relieve, is it pointless to look at the T level and just go based on how i feel and how my bloods look? my HKR went up 1% in 5 months with this dose, everything els got better (Lipids, liver) but more likely to do with diet.
I waited 10 weeks and still didnt feel as good as i did on the higher dose.
are these high levels/slighty over reference range safe long-term if Bloods and BP stay good?
Reference range 200-850 PMOL free T
0.30 ml enanthate E3D
The standard starting dose across the board by those in the know is 100 mg T/week or better yet 50 mg T every 3.5 days.
140 mg T is too high a dose off the hop.
There will always be time to titrate the dose if need be.
Start low and go slow,
Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.
You stated that you felt great overall on your previous dose injecting 60 mg T every 3 days which had you hitting a high-end trough TT 865.3 ng/dL and more importantly a high-end trough FT 742 pmol/L or 21.4 ng/dL.
Not sure what testing method was used for FT but chances are it was tested using the known to be inaccurate direct IA (CLIA/RIA) or calculated using a modified Vermeulen as your trough FT would be higher than 21.4 ng/dL you posted if it was calculated using the Vermeulen method.
In order to know where your FT truly sits you would need to have it tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.
If you do not have access to such which is highly unlikely unless you love outside of the US than you would need to use/rely on the next best testing method the go to calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen (cFTV) which will give a good approximation.
With a high-end trough TT 865.3 ng/dL and very low SHBG 8 nmol/L it is a given that your trough FT would be very high as in 30+ ng/dL.
If we calculated your FT using the go to cFTV which is available online to the general public for free with a high-end trough TT 865.3 ng/dL, low SHBG 8 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default) than your trough FT 31.8 ng/dL would be very high.
Keep in mind your peak TT and more importantly FT will be higher.
As I have stated numerous times on the forum over the years you always need to be mindful of your injection frequency/where trough FT sits.
FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.
FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.
FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.
FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high!
The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.
Most doctors truly in the know even the ones in Canada would be aiming for a
trough FT 15-25 ng/dL or 522-869 pmol/L if the goal was to hit a
healthy/high trough FT 15-25 ng/dL.
Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.
Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol!
Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.
Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL or 10-12 ng/dL tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis and this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!
Even if you take those natty outliers in the 97.5th percentile hitting a high FT 25.3 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!
You have guys on T hitting a trough FT 25-30+ ng/dL injecting daily with FT elevated 24/7, EOD as in every 2 days (48 hrs post-injection),twice-weekly as in every 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection), once weekly as in 7 days post-injection.
As you can see with a high-end trough TT 865.3 ng/dL and low SHBG 8 nmol/L you are easily hitting a very high trough cFTV 31.8 ng/dL.
Bottom line here is if you felt great overall, minus any sides and your blood markers where healthy especially RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit then I see no issue with where your high trough FT sat.
Yes you would easily have had room to bring down your trough FT if need but when you made the move you most likely made too big of a jump lowering your dose as your went from 140 mg--->93.3 mg/week which is a huge drop.
If anything you should have titrated down 20-25 mg T/week as this is the most sensible move when increasing or decreasing the dose.
You lowered your dose by a whopping 46.7 mg T/week which would easily have a huge impact on dropping your TT and more importantly FT.
Your trough FT is still going to be in a healthy range but much lower than the trough cFTV 31.8 ng/dL (1103 pmol/L) you were hitting on your previous protocol 140 mg T/week (60 mg every 3 days).
If anything you should have went with 120 mg T/week.
You never even posted labs so we have no idea where your trough FT sits on your current protocol 93.3 mg T/week (40 mg every 3 days) which has you feeling not so stellar!
Post a screenshot or pdf of your most recent labs!
Sit and dwell on that!
Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!
You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!
Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!
So much misinformation littered on the net its...
