TRT Peaks and troughs or steady levels. Which is correct?

[Ateam2024]

Injectables would never cut it even when using the medium acting esters TC/TE as there will still be a burst release of T within 2 hrs post-injection as T levels will start rising quickly!

Natty endogenous T levels GRADUALLY RISE OVERNIGHT peaking in the early AM!

The closest you could get to mimicking this would be the transdermal T-patch (Androderm) applied before bed.

Sounds like you're just trying to promote that patch ?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I agree being on exo. t is so different than how natural T flucuates. But what recourse do we have on hormone replacment?

Does anyone have burnout from T being High all day. I havent seen many complaints of that but assume it prevalent

 

[madman]

Sounds like you're just trying to promote that patch ?

Not a chance LOL!

It's called kicking some knowledge.

Should have did your research man the T-patch is no longer available as it was discontinued back in 2022/2023 to boot!!

Many have no clue when it comes to exogenous T and the PKs especially when it comes to most closely mimicking the 24 hr natty circadian rhythm of a healthy young male

Everyone so caught up on that morning peak!


(i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening. Based upon these criteria, only the Androderm® transdermal patch (Figure 3D), when applied in the evening (∼22:00 h) as recommended, closely mimics the TT circadian rhythm of normal young adult males.

 

[Cataceous]

I agree being on exo. t is so different than how natural T flucuates. But what recourse do we have on hormone replacment?

There are options, though nothing perfect. To recap from earlier in the thread: Daily injections of propionate blends give at least a crude approximation of normal diurnal variation. I found them to be better than options giving steadier levels. However, you still get HPTA shutdown, which I view as a likely contributing factor to poor results with TRT. The proven HPTA-preserving, short-acting forms of testosterone are nasal gels and buccal troches. Neither is particularly convenient for the long run. But when absorbed in correct amounts they can at least show a guy what a little extra T can do while his HPTA is still working. Importantly, the Natesto clinical trials show that seemingly unnatural short peaks in serum testosterone can resolve hypogonadism; you don't need some perfect diurnal rhythm.

Oral testosterone is intermediate and more convenient. You get nice daily peaks but more HPTA suppression. Maximus's version is the most promising, but you still need enclomiphene to maintain decent HPTA activity.

I continue to dabble with testosterone suspension. It's more suppressive than I originally had hoped, but it is viable with concomitant gonadorelin. Unfortunately it's a loser with respect to convenience.

Does anyone have burnout from T being High all day. I havent seen many complaints of that but assume it prevalent

Not sure if it's "burnout", but I attribute all of the common side effects to continually elevated testosterone and/or HPTA shutdown: high hematocrit, sleep disruptions, ED, loss of sensitivity, loss of libido, high estradiol, high prolactin, etc. I've experienced all of these except elevated hematocrit.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

There are options, though nothing perfect. To recap from earlier in the thread: Daily injections of propionate blends give at least a crude approximation of normal diurnal variation. I found them to be better than options giving steadier levels. However, you still get HPTA shutdown, which I view as a likely contributing factor to poor results with TRT. The proven HPTA-preserving, short-acting forms of testosterone are nasal gels and buccal troches. Neither is particularly convenient for the long run. But when absorbed in correct amounts they can at least show a guy what a little extra T can do while his HPTA is still working. Importantly, the Natesto clinical trials show that seemingly unnatural short peaks in serum testosterone can resolve hypogonadism; you don't need some perfect diurnal rhythm.

Oral testosterone is intermediate and more convenient. You get nice daily peaks but more HPTA suppression. Maximus's version is the most promising, but you still need enclomiphene to maintain decent HPTA activity.

I continue to dabble with testosterone suspension. It's more suppressive than I originally had hoped, but it is viable with concomitant gonadorelin. Unfortunately it's a loser with respect to convenience.



Not sure if it's "burnout", but I attribute all of the common side effects to continually elevated testosterone and/or HPTA shutdown: high hematocrit, sleep disruptions, ED, loss of sensitivity, loss of libido, high estradiol, high prolactin, etc. I've experienced all of these except elevated hematocrit.

Yeah tough balancing act for sure. I do use a cpap and find staing in good shape helps most sides .. but not the same sex I used to have before. Oh well