Sleeping much better on Kyzatrex vs injections

[madman]

If you like the concept of lower levels overnight to facilitate sleep, and lower hematocrit, daily testosterone propionate injections are a more potent alternative to oral T. You might favor test prop when you need the lower overnight trough but still value the anabolic superiority of injections, or have issues with the supraphysiologic DHT that results from oral T.

Once daily cream in the morning is similar, except that also brings supraphysiologic DHT in most cases.

Again If you truly wanted to give the body a break you would need to run a sensible trough which for the majority would be within/well-within the physiological range!

Might want to point that out next time as most have no clue when it comes to dosing daily TP as most are running around with way too high a trough FT.

Post in thread 'Any Testosterone Propionate Compounding Pharmacies left?'

Oct 19, 2025

I too abandoned my trt clinic because no more Tprop. and saving lots of money by going UGL. blood work via my general doc, for pennies through insurance.
i also felt like shit on TC. no clue why. i do believe while Tprop does not mimic the natural peaks/lows, it provides a large enough daily swing to give your body a little 'break'. 'you need to maintain a stable level' is complete nonsense pushed by all kind of T 'gurus'. yes, you dont want weekly swing, but daily are totally fine. the morning shot peaks 2-3h post and tapers off at night a bit

i do believe while Tprop...

• madman

Dr. Suns hybrid Kyzatrex protocol dosed (morning/noon) takes the cake here when it comes to truly giving the body a break as in less hammering to the HPG-axis and CNS 24/7!

The body was never meant to be amped up on FT 24/7!

Thread 'Oral TU (Kyzatrex) - Breakfast + Lunch Dosing Protocol/PKs'

Apr 18, 2025

* Just to be clear when it comes to the Breakfast + Lunch Dosing Protocol/PK as Dr. Sun stated: and although this is obviously not real pharmacokinetics I just basically superimposed the two graphs on eacth other and I think that this is roughly what's happening because I've checked labs on hundreds of patients at all different time frames




7:55-13:42

• madman
• hypogonadism; oral tu/kyzatrex; tth; men's health
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

 

[madman]

The deep trough theory is my guess as well. It seems to make the most sense as to why the the big improvement in sleep quality.

I don't have accurate TT/FT levels on orals yet as they were taken while I still had T cyp in my system. The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose. These were taken one week after starting Kyzatrex and two weeks after stopping daily injections. I will have updated labs in about two weeks.

As for the getting up to go to the bathroom. My guess is that I don't actually have to go to the bathroom that badly. It's more of a reset button to help me get back to sleep. So if I'm sleeping deeper I don't wake up and if I don't wake up I don't get up and go to the bathroom.

The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose.


This needs to be stressed here when following Dr. Suns hybrid protocol (breakfast/lunch)!

You are going to achieve a higher Tmax on the hybrid vs standard dosing protocol.

Would not even waste my time using any of the newer oral TU formulations if you are not aiming for a heathy/ high peak FT as it is short-lived. and temporary.

Most men will need the higher-end doses 300-400 mg BID to achieve a healthy/high peak FT.

Hope you are testing your FT using the most accurate assay the gold. standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay otherwise you will have no clue where your peak truly sits!

V

Thread 'Switching from injections to Kyzatrex - residual T and labs timing?'

Nov 1, 2024

As the title states, I am switching from 12mg T cypionate subq daily injections to Kyzatrex oral testosterone (I plan on detailing my journey in another thread when I have labs to share). I stopped my injections today and will not start taking Kyzatrex for a week. I have some questions about how much T from my cypionate injections will show up in my labs. Specifically,

1. Does anyone know what percentage of my T cyp injections dosage will still be in my system at 3 weeks and 4 weeks?
2. How long until the T from the injections is completely out of my system?
3. How many hours post...

• Vman
• kyzatrex labs oral testosterone testosterone cypionate
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

 

[ajallday]

I would definitely tell anyone that asked me that I felt great on injections. I worked out regularly. I'm in great shape and I have plenty of energy. I just knew my sleep quality was poor and I only felt tired on the rare bad day where I got 3+1 hours of sleep.

Yes I'm on the highest dose of 400mg twice daily. My first dose is with breakfast at about 8am and my second dose is at lunch around noon. I'm sleeping 11:30pm/midnight - 7:30am without waking in the night. I'm now getting 7.5-8 hours of sleep every night. I thought I felt amazing on injections. I feel even more amazing now. I can't wait to see my labs next week.

This is actually really interesting to me. I will definitely look into daily propionate injections if the Kyzatrex doesn't work out in the long-term for whatever reason.

I started TRT on twice daily cream and I felt great on it. I actually miss the effects of the ultra high DHT on cream. Unfortunately, I kept developing skin rashes that my doc and I were unable to resolve using prescription steroid creams on. Otherwise, I probably would still be on cream today.

Vman, was your cream HRT base? and what concentration and where was it from?

 

[Mastodont]

That is pretty close to many gels PK, they go to baseline after 12 hrs, so the breakfast-lunch protocol could be a viable option for gels as well.

 

[madman]

That is pretty close to many gels PK, they go to baseline after 12 hrs, so the breakfast-lunch protocol could be a viable option for gels as well.

Two different animals here as the PKs are not the same!

Oral TU has sharp BID peaks/troughs whereas once daily application of gels provide continuous transdermal absorption with much flatter/srable serum levels 24-hour exposure.

The gels don’t bottom out at 12 hours like oral TU declines between doses.

Oral TU products typically peak around 2–5 hours after dosing and decline substantially before the next dose which is why they need to be dosed twice daily.

Again the gels do not bottom out at 12 hours as they provide relatively steady release throughout the day and are specifically designed for once-daily application.

Thread 'Does Patient-Applied TRT Pose Risk for Blood Pressure Elevation?'

Nov 12, 2022

Does Patient-Applied Testosterone Replacement Therapy Pose Risk for Blood Pressure Elevation? Circadian Medicine Perspectives (2022)
Michael H. Smolensky, Ramon C. Hermida, Linda Sackett-Lundeen, *Ramon G. Hermida-Ayala, and Yong-Jian Geng


ABSTRACT

We reviewed medication package inserts, US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reports, and journal publications concerning the 10 nonbiosimilar patient-applied (PA) testosterone (T) replacement therapies (TRTs) for intraday serum T patterning and blood pressure (BP) effects. Blood T concentration is circadian...

• madman
• trt; blood pressure; hypertension
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Figures 2A-2F depict the TT 24 h pattern achieved by the 6 different solution and gel PA-TRTs, and Figures 3A-3D depict the TT 24 h pattern achieved by the buccal tablet, oral capsule, transdermal patch, and subcutaneously injected PATRTs. There are substantial differences between the therapies in the derived TT 24 h pattern; moreover, all but one of them differs either somewhat or greatly from the normative one of diurnally active young adult males, which is defined by: (i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening. Based upon these criteria, only the Androderm® transdermal patch (Figure 3D), when applied in the evening (∼22:00 h) as recommended, closely mimics the TT circadian rhythm of normal young adult males.




AndroGel® 1%, AndroGel® 1.62%, Axiron®, Fortesta®, and Testim® (and its biosimilar Vogelxo®) gel and solution preparations are recommended for application once daily in the morning to attain the highest serum hormone level 2 to 6 h following dosing and lowest, instead of highest, hormone level during sleep, that is, final hours of the 24 h dosing interval (Figure 2A-2E).

*AndroGel® 1%, AndroGel® 1.62%, Xyosted®, and Striant®, which achieve relatively constant serum hormone concentration throughout the 24 h, seem to have been incorrectly conceptualized, perhaps because of the presumed necessity to maintain nonvarying, that is, homeostatic, TT concentration to achieve consistency of biological effects.

The Jatenzo® oral soft gel capsule formulation ingested twice daily at equal intervals also gives rise to variable TT levels of distinct 12 h patterning, with prominent Cmax following 2 to 4 h after each ingestion and rapidly declining levels thereafter (Figure 3B).

 

[Mastodont]

Two different animals here as the PKs are not the same!

maybe not the same but similar, what you posted are mainly marketing, still you can clearly see from many of your examples how low the levels get at 12hrs. Testavan and tostran in Europe are honest about this, my personal feeling with testogel is its the same, you can clearly feel the peak and the dip in the evening with once daily application, and i have many times been lower on the through than without trt.

Men who are primary cases probably maintain some natural production to flatten the curve.

 

[madman]

maybe not the same but similar, what you posted are mainly marketing, still you can clearly see from many of your examples how low the levels get at 12hrs. Testavan and tostran in Europe are honest about this, my personal feeling with testogel is its the same, you can clearly feel the peak and the dip in the evening with once daily application, and i have many times been lower on the through than without trt.

View attachment 56900

View attachment 56902
Men who are primary cases probably maintain some natural production to flatten the curve.

Still not common to be bottoming out when using big Pharma T gels especially if the dose is high enough.

Many men need the higher-end doses when using the big Pharma brands in order to achieve a high enough peak FT.

There are 1000s of men using the big Pharma gels who are still. hitting descent/robust FT levels 12 hrs post-application.

Standard protocol for any of the big Pharma gels is once daily application.

Yes some individuals may hit subpar levels 12 hrs post application but it is far from common.

Seems to happen more often when using the creams scrotal application but even then many men are still hitting stellar levels 12 hrs post!

Top it off that most using the compounded higher strength creams are using a whopping dose applied twice daily!

Peak FT levels are insanely high in many cases let alone levels are still very robust 12 hrs post application.