Sleeping much better on Kyzatrex vs injections

[madman]

If you like the concept of lower levels overnight to facilitate sleep, and lower hematocrit, daily testosterone propionate injections are a more potent alternative to oral T. You might favor test prop when you need the lower overnight trough but still value the anabolic superiority of injections, or have issues with the supraphysiologic DHT that results from oral T.

Once daily cream in the morning is similar, except that also brings supraphysiologic DHT in most cases.

Again If you truly wanted to give the body a break you would need to run a sensible trough which for the majority would be within/well-within the physiological range!

Might want to point that out next time as most have no clue when it comes to dosing daily TP as most are running around with way too high a trough FT.

Post in thread 'Any Testosterone Propionate Compounding Pharmacies left?'

Oct 19, 2025

I too abandoned my trt clinic because no more Tprop. and saving lots of money by going UGL. blood work via my general doc, for pennies through insurance.
i also felt like shit on TC. no clue why. i do believe while Tprop does not mimic the natural peaks/lows, it provides a large enough daily swing to give your body a little 'break'. 'you need to maintain a stable level' is complete nonsense pushed by all kind of T 'gurus'. yes, you dont want weekly swing, but daily are totally fine. the morning shot peaks 2-3h post and tapers off at night a bit

i do believe while Tprop...

• madman

Dr. Suns hybrid Kyzatrex protocol dosed (morning/noon) takes the cake here when it comes to truly giving the body a break as in less hammering to the HPG-axis and CNS 24/7!

The body was never meant to be amped up on FT 24/7!

Thread 'Oral TU (Kyzatrex) - Breakfast + Lunch Dosing Protocol/PKs'

Apr 18, 2025

* Just to be clear when it comes to the Breakfast + Lunch Dosing Protocol/PK as Dr. Sun stated: and although this is obviously not real pharmacokinetics I just basically superimposed the two graphs on eacth other and I think that this is roughly what's happening because I've checked labs on hundreds of patients at all different time frames




7:55-13:42

• madman
• hypogonadism; oral tu/kyzatrex; tth; men's health
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

 

[madman]

The deep trough theory is my guess as well. It seems to make the most sense as to why the the big improvement in sleep quality.

I don't have accurate TT/FT levels on orals yet as they were taken while I still had T cyp in my system. The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose. These were taken one week after starting Kyzatrex and two weeks after stopping daily injections. I will have updated labs in about two weeks.

As for the getting up to go to the bathroom. My guess is that I don't actually have to go to the bathroom that badly. It's more of a reset button to help me get back to sleep. So if I'm sleeping deeper I don't wake up and if I don't wake up I don't get up and go to the bathroom.

The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose.


This needs to be stressed here when following Dr. Suns hybrid protocol (breakfast/lunch)!

You are going to achieve a higher Tmax on the hybrid vs standard dosing protocol.

Would not even waste my time using any of the newer oral TU formulations if you are not aiming for a heathy/ high peak FT as it is short-lived. and temporary.

Most men will need the higher-end doses 300-400 mg BID to achieve a healthy/high peak FT.

Hope you are testing your FT using the most accurate assay the gold. standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay otherwise you will have no clue where your peak truly sits!

V

Thread 'Switching from injections to Kyzatrex - residual T and labs timing?'

Nov 1, 2024

As the title states, I am switching from 12mg T cypionate subq daily injections to Kyzatrex oral testosterone (I plan on detailing my journey in another thread when I have labs to share). I stopped my injections today and will not start taking Kyzatrex for a week. I have some questions about how much T from my cypionate injections will show up in my labs. Specifically,

1. Does anyone know what percentage of my T cyp injections dosage will still be in my system at 3 weeks and 4 weeks?
2. How long until the T from the injections is completely out of my system?
3. How many hours post...

• Vman
• kyzatrex labs oral testosterone testosterone cypionate
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

 

[ajallday]

I would definitely tell anyone that asked me that I felt great on injections. I worked out regularly. I'm in great shape and I have plenty of energy. I just knew my sleep quality was poor and I only felt tired on the rare bad day where I got 3+1 hours of sleep.

Yes I'm on the highest dose of 400mg twice daily. My first dose is with breakfast at about 8am and my second dose is at lunch around noon. I'm sleeping 11:30pm/midnight - 7:30am without waking in the night. I'm now getting 7.5-8 hours of sleep every night. I thought I felt amazing on injections. I feel even more amazing now. I can't wait to see my labs next week.

This is actually really interesting to me. I will definitely look into daily propionate injections if the Kyzatrex doesn't work out in the long-term for whatever reason.

I started TRT on twice daily cream and I felt great on it. I actually miss the effects of the ultra high DHT on cream. Unfortunately, I kept developing skin rashes that my doc and I were unable to resolve using prescription steroid creams on. Otherwise, I probably would still be on cream today.

Vman, was your cream HRT base? and what concentration and where was it from?

 

[Mastodont]

That is pretty close to many gels PK, they go to baseline after 12 hrs, so the breakfast-lunch protocol could be a viable option for gels as well.

 

[madman]

That is pretty close to many gels PK, they go to baseline after 12 hrs, so the breakfast-lunch protocol could be a viable option for gels as well.

Two different animals here as the PKs are not the same!

Oral TU has sharp BID peaks/troughs whereas once daily application of gels provide continuous transdermal absorption with much flatter/srable serum levels 24-hour exposure.

The gels don’t bottom out at 12 hours like oral TU declines between doses.

Oral TU products typically peak around 2–5 hours after dosing and decline substantially before the next dose which is why they need to be dosed twice daily.

Again the gels do not bottom out at 12 hours as they provide relatively steady release throughout the day and are specifically designed for once-daily application.

Thread 'Does Patient-Applied TRT Pose Risk for Blood Pressure Elevation?'

Nov 12, 2022

Does Patient-Applied Testosterone Replacement Therapy Pose Risk for Blood Pressure Elevation? Circadian Medicine Perspectives (2022)
Michael H. Smolensky, Ramon C. Hermida, Linda Sackett-Lundeen, *Ramon G. Hermida-Ayala, and Yong-Jian Geng


ABSTRACT

We reviewed medication package inserts, US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reports, and journal publications concerning the 10 nonbiosimilar patient-applied (PA) testosterone (T) replacement therapies (TRTs) for intraday serum T patterning and blood pressure (BP) effects. Blood T concentration is circadian...

• madman
• trt; blood pressure; hypertension
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Figures 2A-2F depict the TT 24 h pattern achieved by the 6 different solution and gel PA-TRTs, and Figures 3A-3D depict the TT 24 h pattern achieved by the buccal tablet, oral capsule, transdermal patch, and subcutaneously injected PATRTs. There are substantial differences between the therapies in the derived TT 24 h pattern; moreover, all but one of them differs either somewhat or greatly from the normative one of diurnally active young adult males, which is defined by: (i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening. Based upon these criteria, only the Androderm® transdermal patch (Figure 3D), when applied in the evening (∼22:00 h) as recommended, closely mimics the TT circadian rhythm of normal young adult males.




AndroGel® 1%, AndroGel® 1.62%, Axiron®, Fortesta®, and Testim® (and its biosimilar Vogelxo®) gel and solution preparations are recommended for application once daily in the morning to attain the highest serum hormone level 2 to 6 h following dosing and lowest, instead of highest, hormone level during sleep, that is, final hours of the 24 h dosing interval (Figure 2A-2E).

*AndroGel® 1%, AndroGel® 1.62%, Xyosted®, and Striant®, which achieve relatively constant serum hormone concentration throughout the 24 h, seem to have been incorrectly conceptualized, perhaps because of the presumed necessity to maintain nonvarying, that is, homeostatic, TT concentration to achieve consistency of biological effects.

The Jatenzo® oral soft gel capsule formulation ingested twice daily at equal intervals also gives rise to variable TT levels of distinct 12 h patterning, with prominent Cmax following 2 to 4 h after each ingestion and rapidly declining levels thereafter (Figure 3B).

 

[Mastodont]

Two different animals here as the PKs are not the same!

maybe not the same but similar, what you posted are mainly marketing, still you can clearly see from many of your examples how low the levels get at 12hrs. Testavan and tostran in Europe are honest about this, my personal feeling with testogel is its the same, you can clearly feel the peak and the dip in the evening with once daily application, and i have many times been lower on the through than without trt.

Men who are primary cases probably maintain some natural production to flatten the curve.

 

[madman]

maybe not the same but similar, what you posted are mainly marketing, still you can clearly see from many of your examples how low the levels get at 12hrs. Testavan and tostran in Europe are honest about this, my personal feeling with testogel is its the same, you can clearly feel the peak and the dip in the evening with once daily application, and i have many times been lower on the through than without trt.

View attachment 56900

View attachment 56902
Men who are primary cases probably maintain some natural production to flatten the curve.

Still not common to be bottoming out when using big Pharma T gels especially if the dose is high enough.

Many men need the higher-end doses when using the big Pharma brands in order to achieve a high enough peak FT.

There are 1000s of men using the big Pharma gels who are still. hitting descent/robust FT levels 12 hrs post-application.

Standard protocol for any of the big Pharma gels is once daily application.

Yes some individuals may hit subpar levels 12 hrs post application but it is far from common.

Seems to happen more often when using the creams scrotal application but even then many men are still hitting stellar levels 12 hrs post!

Top it off that most using the compounded higher strength creams are using a whopping dose applied twice daily!

Peak FT levels are insanely high in many cases let alone levels are still very robust 12 hrs post application.

 

[Vman]

Got my first real lab results on Kyzatrex 400mg twice daily:

5/11/2026 @ 3pm:
Total T: 2069 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 570.2 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 21 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 17.6 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 52.7 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 31 (38-380 ng/mL)

Lab was drawn 3.5 hours after my lunch dose as advised by my doc to measure peak. My last T cyp subq injection was on 3/4/2026 and I started taking Kyzatrex on 3/11/2026. My last blood donation was on 4/30/2026 and I did the Vorck protocol starting on that day and for 7 total days ending on 5/7/2026.

I clearly have no problem achieving crazy high peak TT and Free T on Kyzatrex! In addition, my Hematocrit of 52.7 is the lowest it's been in years. My performance in the gym is the same or slightly better compared to injections. But most importantly, I feel amazing and I'm sleeping great every night!

For reference, here are my last few labs on 10mg subq daily T cyp injections @ 8:30am:

6/26/2025 @ 9:01am:
Total T: 585 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 110.4 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.9 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 57.4 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 29 (38-380 ng/mL)

10/2/2025 @ 9:23am:
Total T: 610 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 121.7 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.4 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 56.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 43 (38-380 ng/mL)

1/20/2026 @ 3:10pm:
Total T: 1142 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 161 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 26 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.0 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 25 (38-380 ng/mL)

 

[Willyt]

Well I'd say you have some room to reduce dose

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Got my first real lab results on Kyzatrex 400mg twice daily:

5/11/2026 @ 3pm:
Total T: 2069 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 570.2 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 21 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 17.6 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 52.7 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 31 (38-380 ng/mL)

Lab was drawn 3.5 hours after my lunch dose as advised by my doc to measure peak. My last T cyp subq injection was on 3/4/2026 and I started taking Kyzatrex on 3/11/2026. My last blood donation was on 4/30/2026 and I did the Vorck protocol starting on that day and for 7 total days ending on 5/7/2026.

I clearly have no problem achieving crazy high peak TT and Free T on Kyzatrex! In addition, my Hematocrit of 52.7 is the lowest it's been in years. My performance in the gym is the same or slightly better compared to injections. But most importantly, I feel amazing and I'm sleeping great every night!

For reference, here are my last few labs on 10mg subq daily T cyp injections @ 8:30am:

6/26/2025 @ 9:01am:
Total T: 585 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 110.4 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.9 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 57.4 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 29 (38-380 ng/mL)

10/2/2025 @ 9:23am:
Total T: 610 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 121.7 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.4 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 56.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 43 (38-380 ng/mL)

1/20/2026 @ 3:10pm:
Total T: 1142 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 161 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 26 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.0 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 25 (38-380 ng/mL)

I'll be interested to see if your LH comes back. At this point your natural production is likely still shut down. Oral T (often with a SERM) has been promoted as a starting point for people who still have some natural production so it's still very early to understand how different starting points affect outcomes.

 

[madman]

Got my first real lab results on Kyzatrex 400mg twice daily:

5/11/2026 @ 3pm:
Total T: 2069 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 570.2 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 21 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 17.6 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 52.7 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 31 (38-380 ng/mL)

Lab was drawn 3.5 hours after my lunch dose as advised by my doc to measure peak. My last T cyp subq injection was on 3/4/2026 and I started taking Kyzatrex on 3/11/2026. My last blood donation was on 4/30/2026 and I did the Vorck protocol starting on that day and for 7 total days ending on 5/7/2026.

I clearly have no problem achieving crazy high peak TT and Free T on Kyzatrex! In addition, my Hematocrit of 52.7 is the lowest it's been in years. My performance in the gym is the same or slightly better compared to injections. But most importantly, I feel amazing and I'm sleeping great every night!

For reference, here are my last few labs on 10mg subq daily T cyp injections @ 8:30am:

6/26/2025 @ 9:01am:
Total T: 585 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 110.4 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.9 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 57.4 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 29 (38-380 ng/mL)

10/2/2025 @ 9:23am:
Total T: 610 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 121.7 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.4 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 56.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 43 (38-380 ng/mL)

1/20/2026 @ 3:10pm:
Total T: 1142 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 161 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 26 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.0 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 25 (38-380 ng/mL)

Clearly an over responder here as you are hitting an absurdly high peak TT and more importantly FT 57 ng/dL.

Your first peak post morning dose would still be impressive!

This is where one needs to keep in mind starting doses as some men can achieve stellar levels on the standard starting dose 200 mg BID.

Even then the true peak post noon dose will be pushed higher due to overlapping absorption when following the hybrid protocol (breakfast/lunch).

After you hit the true peak levels will start coming down fairly quick.

Would be interesting to see where you bottom out 8-12 hrs post dose or better yet your true trough (pre-AM) dose!

Your ferritin is still too low.




Your reply from post #5 (this thread)

I don't have accurate TT/FT levels on orals yet as they were taken while I still had T cyp in my system. The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose. These were taken one week after starting Kyzatrex and two weeks after stopping daily injections. I will have updated labs in about two weeks.


Something off here when comparing your labs as you stated the numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose.

This was 2 weeks after starting so you would have easily hit steady-state a week before you had the labs done yet on your most recent labs your numbers are well beyond 15% over the top-end of the refernce range LOL as you are hitting a. ridiculous peak TT 2069 ng/dL and more importantly absurdly high peak FT 57 ng/dL 3.5 hrs post noon dose!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I'll be interested to see if your LH comes back. At this point your natural production is likely still shut down. Oral T (often with a SERM) has been promoted as a starting point for people who still have some natural production so it's still very early to understand how different starting points affect outcomes.

I bet a morning pre-dose trough LH will show something above 1.0 mIU/mL despite his crazy peak levels.

 

[madman]

Got my first real lab results on Kyzatrex 400mg twice daily:

5/11/2026 @ 3pm:
Total T: 2069 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 570.2 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 21 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 17.6 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 52.7 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 31 (38-380 ng/mL)

Lab was drawn 3.5 hours after my lunch dose as advised by my doc to measure peak. My last T cyp subq injection was on 3/4/2026 and I started taking Kyzatrex on 3/11/2026. My last blood donation was on 4/30/2026 and I did the Vorck protocol starting on that day and for 7 total days ending on 5/7/2026.

I clearly have no problem achieving crazy high peak TT and Free T on Kyzatrex! In addition, my Hematocrit of 52.7 is the lowest it's been in years. My performance in the gym is the same or slightly better compared to injections. But most importantly, I feel amazing and I'm sleeping great every night!

For reference, here are my last few labs on 10mg subq daily T cyp injections @ 8:30am:

6/26/2025 @ 9:01am:
Total T: 585 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 110.4 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.9 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 57.4 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 29 (38-380 ng/mL)

10/2/2025 @ 9:23am:
Total T: 610 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 121.7 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 24 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.4 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 56.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 43 (38-380 ng/mL)

1/20/2026 @ 3:10pm:
Total T: 1142 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 161 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 26 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 18.0 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 54.2 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 25 (38-380 ng/mL)

Again after you hit your true peak T levels will start to decline fairly quick and keep in mind you have somewhat lowish SHBG 21 nmol/L to boot.

Even then your current hybrid protocol is producing markedly supraphysiologic peak FT levels 3.5 hrs post noon dose as peak would be achieved 3-5 hrs post.

Come 3-5pm your TT and more importantly FT levels are absurdly high.

Seeing as your peak is absurdly high your true trough may not be as low as you think.

If anything I would at least test your true trough (pre-AM) dose and of course using the gold standard ED assay as it would be extremely informative.

If it was a case where ones true trough comes back much higher then expected as in still hitting a healthy TT and more importantly FT then there would still be strong suppression HPG-axis.

 

[madman]

You jumped in head first and overshot.

If your goal is to hammer down the hematocrit then you would easily have room to lower your dose if need be.

200 mg BID would easily have you hitting a high peak FT.

Downfall here is if you feel great overall things may not turn out so well.

Even then need to address the bottom end ferritin.

Again I would get labs done at true trough to see where your FT truly sits.

 

[Vman]

I'll be interested to see if your LH comes back. At this point your natural production is likely still shut down. Oral T (often with a SERM) has been promoted as a starting point for people who still have some natural production so it's still very early to understand how different starting points affect outcomes.

LH hasn't come back yet. It was <0.2 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) on this lab.

If anything I would at least test your true trough (pre-AM) dose and of course using the gold standard equilibrium dialysis as it would be extremely informative.

If it was a case where ones true trough comes back much higher then expected as in still hitting a healthy TT and more importantly FT then there would still be strong suppression HPG-axis.

Would be interesting to see where you bottom out 8-12 hrs post dose or better yet your true trough (pre-AM) dose!

Your ferritin is still too low.

I don't have accurate TT/FT levels on orals yet as they were taken while I still had T cyp in my system. The numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose. These were taken one week after starting Kyzatrex and two weeks after stopping daily injections. I will have updated labs in about two weeks.

Something off here when comparing your labs as you stated the numbers I do have are above top of range by 15% or so at peak 4 hours post lunch dose.

This was 2 weeks after starting so you would have easily hit steady-state a week before you had the labs done yet on your most recent labs your numbers are well beyond 15% over the top-end of the refernce range LOL as you are hitting a. ridiculous peak TT 2069 ng/dL and more importantly absurdly high peak FT 57 ng/dL 3.5 hrs post noon dose!

I might try testing true trough sometime. It would be interesting to know.

Yes, my ferritin is still too low. I usually only run one week of Vorck at each blood donation every 2 months. Sometimes I do an additional week in between donations. I might do one in a couple weeks to get back into the 50-60 range.

My numbers are definitely off compared to my starting numbers which I would expect to be even higher given I still had T cyp from injections in my system. My best guess is that the Kyzatrex didn't hit steady state in one week. I was only on Kyzatrex for one week, not 2 weeks when I did my first labs. It doesn't really matter now, given where my numbers are.

The more interesting thing will be to see how my TT, FT, Hematocrit and LH react to lower doses. And if my sleep quality gets even better on a lower dose!

 

[madman]

LH hasn't come back yet. It was <0.2 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) on this lab.



I might try testing true trough sometime. It would be interesting to know.

Yes, my ferritin is still too low. I usually only run one week of Vorck at each blood donation every 2 months. Sometimes I do an additional week in between donations. I might do one in a couple weeks to get back into the 50-60 range.

My numbers are definitely off compared to my starting numbers which I would expect to be even higher given I still had T cyp from injections in my system. My best guess is that the Kyzatrex didn't hit steady state in one week. I was only on Kyzatrex for one week, not 2 weeks when I did my first labs. It doesn't really matter now, given where my numbers are.

The more interesting thing will be to see how my TT, FT, Hematocrit and LH react to lower doses. And if my sleep quality gets even better on a lower dose!

Steady-state is achieved in 7 days!

60–70% decline is often more typical for peak--->trough and even if it was 75% seeing as you are hitting an absurdly high peak FT 57 ng/dL 3.5 hrs post noon dose and peak is achieved 3-5 hrs post your true trough FT 14 ng/dL would still be healthy and robust.

There would still be strong suppression HPG-axis.

LH is not going to budge if you are still hitting a healthy trough TT and more importantly FT.

 

[madman]

LH hasn't come back yet. It was <0.2 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) on this lab.



I might try testing true trough sometime. It would be interesting to know.

Yes, my ferritin is still too low. I usually only run one week of Vorck at each blood donation every 2 months. Sometimes I do an additional week in between donations. I might do one in a couple weeks to get back into the 50-60 range.

My numbers are definitely off compared to my starting numbers which I would expect to be even higher given I still had T cyp from injections in my system. My best guess is that the Kyzatrex didn't hit steady state in one week. I was only on Kyzatrex for one week, not 2 weeks when I did my first labs. It doesn't really matter now, given where my numbers are.

The more interesting thing will be to see how my TT, FT, Hematocrit and LH react to lower doses. And if my sleep quality gets even better on a lower dose!

2 different animals here dosing oral native T once daily or once daily + enclomiphene vs oral TU standard BID protocol (Jatenzo, Tlando or Kyzatrex) or hybrid BID protocol (Kyzatrex).

Keep in mind when using oral TU for most troughs 8-12 hrs post-dose return close/back to baseline!

Peaks are usually within the physiologic range as in high-end or slightly supraphysiologic not absurdly high for most.

Again when following the hybrid protocol (breakfast/lunch) peak concentrations will be higher due to overlapping absorption.

As I stated previously If your goal is to hammer down the hematocrit then you would easily have room to lower your dose if need be.




Oral testosterone undecanoate (200-237 mg twice daily depending on the formulation)

Tlando: Incomplete suppression in men with hypogonadism

Kyzatrex: Incomplete suppression (~65% reduction) in men with hypogonadism

Jatenzo: Incomplete suppression (~70% reduction) in men with hypogonadism

Post in thread 'Does oral testosterone add to your existing natural levels or will it suppress natural levels?'

Jan 19, 2026

For example, if your current natural levels are at 400, and you take oral testosterone will the oral testosterone add to the level of your natural testosterone or could it possibly suppress your natural production and maybe make your levels actually lower depending on how well you absorb the oral medication?

All formulations of exogenous T will inhibit the HPG axis to some degree!




Oral testosterone undecanoate (200-237 mg twice daily depending on the formulation)

Tlando: Incomplete suppression in men with hypogonadism

Kyzatrex: Incomplete...

• madman

In the Jatenzo study, LH/FSH levels were significantly depressed.

Oral TU (BID) resulted in a 70% decrease in LH/FSH.

Post in thread 'Official Natesto Thread'

Jun 25, 2022

Gents, I know we have had some discussion on 2x/day vs. 3x/day. From what I recall, there is some data that shows 2x/day is less suppressive than 3x/day.

I quickly re-scanned through most of these posts looking for reference to this data, but can't quite find what I am looking for. @madman, do you know if there is data that specifically compares LH/FSH suppression with 2 vs 3x per day?

Also, can we draw conclusions on 3x/day of Natesto vs. other modalities? In other words, although 3x/day is more suppressive, does it still allow the axis to function and/or...

• madman

• 

Thread 'New Breakthrough for Low T: Combining Clomiphene Citrate with Oral TU (Kyzatrex) Boosts T Levels, Preserves Fertility, and Improves Symptoms'

Aug 20, 2025

Nelson's house always on point here!

You know where it's at LOL!




* The mean baseline total testosterone was 264 ± 61 ng/dL. After three months of CC monotherapy, mean total testosterone significantly increased to 522 ± 101 ng/dL; FSH and LH levels also rose significantly. However, patients reported minimal symptomatic improvement. Upon adding oral TU to the CC regimen for an additional three months, mean peak total testosterone levels significantly increased to 1052 ± 293 ng/dL. Notably, with combination therapy, FSH levels (mean 5.2 ± 3.7 mIU/mL) and LH...

• madman
• hypogonadism; oral t/clomid; t/lh/fsh
• Replies: 12
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Thread 'Maximus: Oral TRT+ (native T + enclomiphene + pregnenolone)'

Mar 10, 2024

Today we’re excited to announce a breakthrough in men’s hormone optimization: Maximus' Oral TRT+ Protocol. Testosterone, without injections or messy creams, all while maintaining fertility markers.

Timestamps:

0:00 - 0:09 - Introduction
0:10 - 3:54 - What is Maximus Oral TRT+?
3:55 - 4:44 - Maximus' Clinical Study Results & Findings
4:45 - 8:09 - Benefits Of Oral TRT+
8:10 - 9:54 - Getting Started On Oral TRT+
9:55 - 10:36 - Is Oral TRT+...

• madman
• hypogonadism; oral testosterone; enclomiphene; tth
• Replies: 75
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

• 

 

[madman]

LH hasn't come back yet. It was <0.2 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) on this lab.



I might try testing true trough sometime. It would be interesting to know.

Yes, my ferritin is still too low. I usually only run one week of Vorck at each blood donation every 2 months. Sometimes I do an additional week in between donations. I might do one in a couple weeks to get back into the 50-60 range.

My numbers are definitely off compared to my starting numbers which I would expect to be even higher given I still had T cyp from injections in my system. My best guess is that the Kyzatrex didn't hit steady state in one week. I was only on Kyzatrex for one week, not 2 weeks when I did my first labs. It doesn't really matter now, given where my numbers are.

The more interesting thing will be to see how my TT, FT, Hematocrit and LH react to lower doses. And if my sleep quality gets even better on a lower dose!

Give us something to chew on here!

Test your true trough (pre-AM) dose especially seeing as you are hitting an absurdly high peak FT 3.5 hrs post noon dose so come 5 pm your FT will still be absurdly high and chances are your true trough may very well turn out being much higher than you think.

 

[firefighterinNC]

Nice to see another Kyzatrex user

What sort of meal do you take the Kyzatrex with and how long after your dose did you get labs drawn?

 

[madman]

LH hasn't come back yet. It was <0.2 L (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) on this lab.



I might try testing true trough sometime. It would be interesting to know.

Yes, my ferritin is still too low. I usually only run one week of Vorck at each blood donation every 2 months. Sometimes I do an additional week in between donations. I might do one in a couple weeks to get back into the 50-60 range.

My numbers are definitely off compared to my starting numbers which I would expect to be even higher given I still had T cyp from injections in my system. My best guess is that the Kyzatrex didn't hit steady state in one week. I was only on Kyzatrex for one week, not 2 weeks when I did my first labs. It doesn't really matter now, given where my numbers are.

The more interesting thing will be to see how my TT, FT, Hematocrit and LH react to lower doses. And if my sleep quality gets even better on a lower dose!

Got my first real lab results on Kyzatrex 400mg twice daily:

5/11/2026 @ 3pm:
Total T: 2069 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free T: 570.2 (35-155 pg/mL)
SHBG: 21 (10-50 nmol/L)
Hemoglobin: 17.6 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 52.7 (39.4-51.1 %)
Ferritin: 31 (38-380 ng/mL)




I started taking Kyzatrex on 3/11/2026. My last blood donation was on 4/30/2026 and I did the Vorck protocol starting on that day and for 7 total days ending on 5/7/2026.


You need to stop donating to see where your hematocrit would truly sit on oral TU.

You started Kyzatrex March 11th and 50 days in donated blood on April 30th so 11 days before getting blood work done on May 11th.

Your hematocrit would have been higher than 52.7% if you never donated.

The goal here is to bring down your hematocrit and ditch the frequent blood donations which are tanking your ferritin.